Where Is The Evidence That Devotees Are Saved

[Jatayu]“Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-gita, 18.66)

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सर्व-धर्मान् परित्यज्य
माम् एकं शरणं व्रज
अहं त्वां सर्व-पापेभ्यो
मोक्षयिष्यामि मा शुचः

sarva-dharmān parityajya
mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja
ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo
mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ

“I beg for some patience today, as I am not entirely sure how to phrase my question. I have settled upon a general issue, which will become clear in a few moments. We begin with the promise of religion. It could be any religion or tradition of spirituality. The seeker is looking for something. They want improvement. They want to reach a certain destination. They feel progress is not being made outside of the religious environment. They may be frightened into the approach, that they are worried about the future, which is unknown.

“As far as I know, every religion promises something better. On the one extreme, there is the dogmatic insistence prohibiting the followers from choosing any other way. Unless they proclaim their faith, out in the open, in front of witnesses, accompanied by regular attendance at a house of worship run by an established institution, they are forever condemned. They will get no other chance. Never mind that some human beings never reach the full potential of mental capacity. In other words, they never get the chance to even consider the choice. There is no information about the fate of such individuals or what happened to people of the past, stretching thousands of years prior, even.

“We find a similar promise in Bhagavad-gita, but with the option to deliberate. If someone surrenders unto Krishna, they have no need to worry. The explicitly stated protection in this case, the first benefit, if you will, is insurance against sinful reactions. There is pāpa from failing to follow different kinds of dharma. The reaction aspect is not difficult to understand. If I fail to pay the utility bill, my electricity will be shut off. If I don’t take a shower for a few days, the immediate reaction is accumulated dirt and a foul stench emanating from my body. You could call these different kinds of sinful reactions to failing to live up to a particular standard, which is dharma.

“I am not arguing against the premise. I am generally inclined towards religion. The problem I see is in the validation. How do we know that someone is saved? If the only proof is in the afterlife, then any person can make a similar claim. We have no way of judging between different booths at a job fair involving full surrender to a particular savior, if you know what I mean.

“If the evidence is there in immediate protection, in experiencing positive outcomes, then why do some devotees undergo trouble. Take Arjuna, for instance. He was the immediate recipient of the promise, made directly by Shri Krishna. Arjuna was protected from the supposedly sinful reaction of killing others. He was successful in prosecuting the Bharata War, in delivering justice to the miscreants.

“At a later date, however, Arjuna failed to protect against dacoits. He suffered an embarrassing defeat. Arjuna realized that the support from Krishna was gone, that the only reason for the prior success was the support of Krishna. How do you resolve the inconsistency? How can Arjuna be considered saved when he failed like an ordinary person? Why do devotees sometimes experience horrible tragedy while living in a dhama, such as Vrindavana? Do you see what I am saying? Where is the proof that surrender is the way? How is life in surrender any different than life in sin?”

[Krishna and Arjuna]As a thought exercise, consider the many outcomes in a given day. There are almost too many outcomes to keep track of. If those outcomes were used as a metric to measure the degree to which I am saved, then sometimes I am saved and sometimes I am not. I wanted to enjoy nature today, to play outside, but there is heavy cloud cover and falling rain. That is a negative outcome. I wanted to satisfy my hunger with nice food, but everything came out wrong. The oven must be broken. That is another negative outcome. On the other side, there was surprisingly little traffic for my long-distance journey. There was no stress. This was a positive outcome.

A single victory does not indicate full protection and an isolated failure does not prove lack of Divine intervention. The promise from Krishna is that the life in devotion will continue. Does the consciousness remain fixed on transcendence? Is there perseverance? Are there any dents in the armor built by dridha-vratah, which is the fixed vow?

सततं कीर्तयन्तो मां
यतन्तश् च दृढ-व्रताः
नमस्यन्तश् च मां भक्त्या
नित्य-युक्ता उपासते

satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ
yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ
namasyantaś ca māṁ bhaktyā
nitya-yuktā upāsate

“Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-gita, 9.14)

In the absence of surrender, the material world is already full of ups and downs, highs and lows, moments of joy and times of sadness. These occur on something like a schedule. Every person experiences both, in the manner of the changing seasons. The wise person learns to tolerate the changes. The wise person knows something beyond the temporary. They know the source of both the temporary and the permanent.

मात्रा-स्पर्शास् तु कौन्तेय
शीतोष्ण-सुख-दुःख-दाः
आगमापायिनो ऽनित्यास्
तांस् तितिक्षस्व भारत

mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya
śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ
āgamāpāyino ‘nityās
tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata

“O son of Kunti, the nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-gita, 2.14)

The humiliating failure for Arjuna against the dacoits did not change the future trajectory. King Dasharatha of Ayodhya was so pious that He received the Supreme Lord as a son. God the person descended as the avatara named Rama to bless that revered leader of the Ikshvakus. The very same Dasharatha later suffered a tragic end in dying due to the pain of separation. He could not tolerate the lack of Rama’s association.

[Jatayu]The vulture Jatayu valiantly served Rama in attempting to stop the wicked Ravana from taking away the blameless Sita Devi by force. Jatayu failed in his attempt. He later succumbed to the injuries from the encounter. Dasharatha and Jatayu left this world in defeat, but they are still considered glorious. They are fully surrendered, and their future, long-term prospects remain fixed in the highest destination, which is the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord.

In Closing:

Convinced by your presentation,
Surrendering for highest destination.

But what exactly changing now?
To prove the protection how?

Sometimes Arjuna to rise,
But also defeat in surprise.

Jatayu and Dasharatha with tragic end,
But link in yoga infinitely to extend.



Categories: questions

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1 reply

  1. Interesting post and a very good question.
    The argument will always remain, with the attached question.
    Who or What is the truth?
    Some have had near death experiences from all cultures and tribes, many claiming to see The One in White.
    Others saw glimpses of hell in their NDE.

    Faith is the key, do we believe, even though we haven’t fully seen everything?
    It’s an answer the majority find out when it’s too late (after death) but those with faith must be willing to stand on their conviction and their Holy Book.
    Obedience, to the Word is also vital.

    Death is not only the end of our physical state, it will also be the answer to all the religions and those who walk in a relationship with the Creator.
    We shall see…

    Thanks for sharing.

    Baba Yeshu’s Blessings.

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